Amdist a sea of tears and smack, sometimes one finds themselves suddenly covered with a wave of preaching and guilt trips. It’s a tactic that some people use when trying to argue their point against ninja salvaging. In their eyes, you are not just a bastard for taking their salvage, your very morale fiber comes into question.
These people are convinced that their outlook on how the game should be played outshines all other outlooks, and like a religious zealot, they will try to preach those views to anyone with a set of ears. Unfortunately, not unlike religious zealots, these people are extremely quick to tell you their views, while they are seldom willing to accept, or even listen to yours. You are, in their eyes, a heathen.
After stripping a mission clean of loot and salvage, I received a convo request from the mission runner. Frustrated that he doesn’t have much time to play and that he cannot do a mission without getting ninja salvaged, he proceeds to tell me his story of woe, while trying to convince me that I am a bad person for “ruining” other peoples’ fun. The convo was a long one - over two and a half hours long – zealots are long winded as they are narrow minded, but I admit that I did my best to keep him griping. To give you an idea of how long this guy went on, I copied the convo and pasted it into Microsoft Word, and it came out to be 20 pages long. 20 pages of tears! I’ve gone through the chat log picked out the nuggets of weirdness so that you don’t have to.
[ 2009.10.13 05:18:12 ] Velocity Prime > o/
[ 2009.10.13 05:18:23 ] Jack Farseer > Hi
[ 2009.10.13 05:19:18 ] Jack Farseer > I am really busting my ass to work up the cash I owe a friend, and the only way I can do it is through missions, cause it's all I know how to do.
[ 2009.10.13 05:20:03 ] Velocity Prime > And?
[ 2009.10.13 05:20:16 ] Jack Farseer > Of course it is obvious you don't give a rats ass about that or me or the general group of people playing this game, but why is it that I can't be allowed to at least loot my own stuff?
[ 2009.10.13 05:20:44 ] Velocity Prime > Well, while you've been sitting around back here, I cleaned out the rest of your mission
[ 2009.10.13 05:22:27 ] Jack Farseer > I just wish that /sometimes/ you'd meet someone who'd give a guy a break.
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[ 2009.10.13 05:24:41 ] Velocity Prime > And when you mission in my system, I loot what I want
[ 2009.10.13 05:24:57 ] Jack Farseer > But why that attitude? How does that serve you really?
[ 2009.10.13 05:26:33 ] Velocity Prime > It serves me just fine. I make ISK. I fight when I like. I get to interact with others.
[ 2009.10.13 05:27:22 ] Velocity Prime > Am I missing something?
[ 2009.10.13 05:27:26 ] Jack Farseer > And get a good feeling and delight in making other real people feel bad. That is pretty sad. I am sorry you turned out that way.
[ 2009.10.13 05:27:43 ] Velocity Prime > Hmm...
[ 2009.10.13 05:27:50 ] Velocity Prime > We're still playing a game right?
[ 2009.10.13 05:28:02 ] Jack Farseer > The game is a game. The hours you put in are real.
[ 2009.10.13 05:28:24 ] Jack Farseer > When your actions take away from the fun of others who also just want to play and have fun... that is more than just playing a game.
[ 2009.10.13 05:28:48 ] Jack Farseer > The old excuse "it is just a game" does not fit well with MMO's.
[ 2009.10.13 05:29:23 ] Velocity Prime > Ahh... So you think your play style is superior to mine?
[ 2009.10.13 05:29:59 ] Jack Farseer > I think my play style adds to the fun of others, and I think my play style will not take away from the fun of others.
[ 2009.10.13 05:30:53 ] Velocity Prime > So my play style is taking away from your fun?
[ 2009.10.13 05:32:13 ] Jack Farseer > Since a mission like that takes me a couple of hours of play, and since I do it in order to be able to do things that give me fun, what you did was taking away an hour of my real life that I could and would have used for something fun. Instead I need to make another task for isk, because you took mine instead of making your own.
[ 2009.10.13 05:33:16 ] Jack Farseer > And I know you are not breaking any rules or anything. That is not what I am talking about. I am not talking about illegality, only immorality.
[ 2009.10.13 05:34:30 ] Velocity Prime > First of all, if that mission is taking you a few hours to complete, you are doing it wrong. Second of all, immorality is in the eye of the beholder. What I am doing is perfectly legitimate, and in fact, by you attempting to impede my play style, you are, by your logic, stopping my fun.
[ 2009.10.13 05:35:32 ] Velocity Prime > You are in charge of your own fun.
[ 2009.10.13 05:35:37 ] Velocity Prime > You can choose what to do.
[ 2009.10.13 05:35:58 ] Velocity Prime > You can start convos with ninja salvagers and cry about their actions, or you can do something about it,
[ 2009.10.13 05:36:07 ] Velocity Prime > You could have killed me.
[ 2009.10.13 05:36:20 ] Velocity Prime > You can have your friends help you salvage....this is an MMO
[ 2009.10.13 05:36:26 ] Velocity Prime > You can wardec me.
[ 2009.10.13 05:36:30 ] Velocity Prime > you can hire mercs
[ 2009.10.13 05:36:37 ] Velocity Prime > the possibilities are endless
[ 2009.10.13 05:37:14 ] Velocity Prime > You choosing to NOT have fun because of my actions is your own fault.
[ 2009.10.13 05:37:27 ] Jack Farseer > It is the weak you prey on, not those who can afford it.
[ 2009.10.13 05:37:39 ] Velocity Prime > I salvage everyone
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[ 2009.10.13 05:40:17 ] Velocity Prime > Listen. Salvaging is not "illegal".
[ 2009.10.13 05:40:30 ] Jack Farseer > And I specifically pointed that out above.
[ 2009.10.13 05:40:42 ] Velocity Prime > So now what is the problem?
[ 2009.10.13 05:41:34 ] Jack Farseer > Salvaging something that was meant for someone else, someone that worked a lot harder for it than you, and who needs it a lot more than you, is just a shitty thing to do.
[ 2009.10.13 05:42:21 ] Velocity Prime > Well that's your view. I view it as a source of income. CCP encourages ninja salvaging
[ 2009.10.13 05:42:27 ] Jack Farseer > And if you asked anyone with a sense of right or wrong he'd say the same. Hiding behind the fact this is a game may make you sleep better at night, but the actual act is the same wherever it is done.
[ 2009.10.13 05:42:56 ] Velocity Prime > Then you need to get out of your mom's basement more
[ 2009.10.13 05:43:06 ] Jack Farseer > =)
[ 2009.10.13 05:43:47 ] Velocity Prime > Come on dude, you're not having fun right now? ;)
[ 2009.10.13 05:44:06 ] Jack Farseer > Not a whole lot.
[ 2009.10.13 05:44:53 ] Jack Farseer > And what I said when I started talking to you is true. I owe a lot of money and I get ninjad every second mission or worse. I am getting ready to quit.
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[ 2009.10.13 05:48:19 ] Jack Farseer > And while we're being frank, can you honestly say that ninja stealing other peoples' loot makes you feel like a righteous enhancer of others' fun?
[ 2009.10.13 05:48:36 ] Velocity Prime > Haha
[ 2009.10.13 05:48:47 ] Velocity Prime > My job is not to make sure you have fun
[ 2009.10.13 05:48:59 ] Velocity Prime > I dont pay a subscription for you
[ 2009.10.13 05:50:01 ] Jack Farseer > Exactly. You /take/ your fun, because your fun is your own responsibility. If it ruins the funs of others that's not your concern, because their fun is their fucking business, not youres. Right? =)
[ 2009.10.13 05:50:24 ] Jack Farseer > You're not responsible.
[ 2009.10.13 05:50:28 ] Jack Farseer > It's not your fault.
[ 2009.10.13 05:50:34 ] Jack Farseer > Your hands are clean.
[ 2009.10.13 05:50:36 ] Velocity Prime > Pretty much, yeah. I have no responsibility to make sure that all of EVE is having a good time.
[ 2009.10.13 05:50:40 ] Jack Farseer > Your soul and heart are clean. LOL
[ 2009.10.13 05:50:54 ] Velocity Prime > So it is said, so it shall be done.
[ 2009.10.13 05:51:06 ] Jack Farseer > Oh dear...
[ 2009.10.13 05:51:35 ] Jack Farseer > I am begining to fear you actually in fullest honest truth believe in that.
[ 2009.10.13 05:52:13 ] Velocity Prime > I have no illusions of internet honor or a code of bullshido.
[ 2009.10.13 05:52:23 ] Jack Farseer > I know.
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[ 2009.10.13 06:10:53 ] Velocity Prime > You have no exclusive rights to the wrecks
[ 2009.10.13 06:11:05 ] Velocity Prime > Therefore, first one in gets the salvage
[ 2009.10.13 06:11:27 ] Jack Farseer > Well, I could argue they have my name on them. Even my picture actually. =)
[ 2009.10.13 06:12:57 ] Velocity Prime > They do. And the loot insde those wrecks is for the person that destroyed it. The salvage however is not
[ 2009.10.13 06:13:03 ] Velocity Prime > Not a tough concept
[ 2009.10.13 06:13:24 ] Jack Farseer > You must have taken some of my loot to though.
[ 2009.10.13 06:13:35 ] Velocity Prime > I took a bunch of loot
[ 2009.10.13 06:13:36 ] Velocity Prime > :D
[ 2009.10.13 06:15:45 ] Jack Farseer > So since you yourself believe that the loot in the wrecks are for the person who destroyed them, you took them just so that you could also get to kill me for some extra joy in setting me back here in "your" system?
[ 2009.10.13 06:16:18 ] Velocity Prime > Yeah
[ 2009.10.13 06:16:38 ] Velocity Prime > And for more ISKies too, I'm not a complete asshole
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[ 2009.10.13 06:20:59 ] Jack Farseer > Ask six billion people in the world about your behaviour and I'd be surprised if 1 out of a thousand said it seemed like you were a good and decent guy.
[ 2009.10.13 06:21:54 ] Velocity Prime > Yeah, you're right. EVE would be better if everyone tiptoed around like fairies in a rose garden, where everyone was scared of offending someone, or taking someone else’s space.
[ 2009.10.13 06:22:10 ] Velocity Prime > Come on dude.
[ 2009.10.13 06:22:35 ] Jack Farseer > Would it be better if all of them were like you?
[ 2009.10.13 06:23:12 ] Jack Farseer > You may think that your actions make this a better game, but that won't change that you're the asshole while the guy who helps people out are decent.
[ 2009.10.13 06:23:42 ] Jack Farseer > Again we're talking ethics, not legality or eula or what CCP endorses or not.
[ 2009.10.13 06:24:00 ] Velocity Prime > Ethics....
[ 2009.10.13 06:24:29 ] Jack Farseer > Yah, the general opinion of what is right and wrong.
[ 2009.10.13 06:25:08 ] Jack Farseer > In a moral sense, not legal.
[ 2009.10.13 06:25:23 ] Velocity Prime > How come we all have to succumb to how you think the game should be played? You think it would be better if everyone was worried about killing the next guy?
[ 2009.10.13 06:25:58 ] Velocity Prime > Yay! we can all shoot rats in belts and everyone will be happy!
[ 2009.10.13 06:26:40 ] Jack Farseer > That has nothing to do with anything I've been saying though.
[ 2009.10.13 06:27:59 ] Velocity Prime > It doesn't? Forcing one set of morals vs. another on a population is different?
[ 2009.10.13 06:28:34 ] Jack Farseer > Well, you are forcing your set of morals on me, so you tell me.
[ 2009.10.13 06:28:59 ] Jack Farseer > All I ask is to be left alone.
[ 2009.10.13 06:30:25 ] Velocity Prime > I'm not forcing anything. You are choosing to play in a game where the reality is that of a harsh universe. An open-ended system where anything can happen. If you choose to want to be left alone, you are playing the wrong game. I hear Mario Bros is awesome.
[ 2009.10.13 06:33:48 ] Jack Farseer > No, I am not saying this should be one big happy cake party with clowns and dolls. I was just asking you to please have enough heart to let a guy who's having a hard time getting by have a break.
[ 2009.10.13 06:34:15 ] Jack Farseer > I'm not saying you should be banned, I'm just asking you to understand.
[ 2009.10.13 06:34:28 ] Jack Farseer > It's not fun to be raped even if it is just in a game.
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[ 2009.10.13 06:44:08 ] Velocity Prime > For real dude. You need to take a step back from the computer game.
[ 2009.10.13 06:47:17 ] Jack Farseer > I don't. I am discussing your personal character, and that is what it is whether I play the game or not. Has very little (or rather nothing actually) to do with the game. ,)
[ 2009.10.13 06:49:12 ] Velocity Prime > My personal character is in question?
[ 2009.10.13 06:49:20 ] Jack Farseer > Ehh....
[ 2009.10.13 06:49:24 ] Velocity Prime > In that case, I question your manhood.
[ 2009.10.13 06:49:28 ] Jack Farseer > Have we discussed anything else?
[ 2009.10.13 06:51:47 ] Velocity Prime > I guess I must have missed that part.
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[ 2009.10.13 07:01:58 ] Jack Farseer > Is there a tax or something one could pay to be left alone from your group?
[ 2009.10.13 07:02:59 ] Velocity Prime > We've had such arrangements in the past, yes.
[ 2009.10.13 07:03:34 ] Jack Farseer > And what does that cost?
[ 2009.10.13 07:04:48 ] Jack Farseer > I just want to be able to finish a mission and have that feeling of "Yes! I did it!"
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[ 2009.10.13 07:12:25 ] Jack Farseer > I know you only do what the game pretty much tells you to do. If you didn't ninja, someone else would. But can you really not see how it affects people in my situation in the bigger picture or were you simply kicking some dirt around when we spoke on that?
[ 2009.10.13 07:13:20 ] Velocity Prime > I can understand that it affects people's wallet, yes.
[ 2009.10.13 07:14:49 ] Jack Farseer > /emote sighs
[ 2009.10.13 07:14:55 ] Jack Farseer > I give up.
[ 2009.10.13 07:15:17 ] Jack Farseer > And I can't keep trying to do missions here.
[ 2009.10.13 07:15:43 ] Jack Farseer > So I'm gonna have to go back to lvl 3's somewhere else, or start on a new npc corp to do missions for.
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[ 2009.10.13 07:22:19 ] Velocity Prime > I hear ninja salvaging can be profitable
[ 2009.10.13 07:24:08 ] Jack Farseer > Preying on the weak and unsuspecting with a backup fleet in the good event they try to defend their mission so that one can "liberate" their modules too?
[ 2009.10.13 07:24:54 ] Jack Farseer > Sounds like a swell job I'd be proud to tell my grandchildren about one day.
[ 2009.10.13 07:25:20 ] Velocity Prime > heh I'm sure your grandchildren will be thrilled to hear about your online gaming experiences
[ 2009.10.13 07:25:32 ] Jack Farseer > If you think I sound bitter it might be because I am a bit. I don't know what to do really.
I have to admit, I feel a little bit sorry for Jack. Not because he gets ninja'ed all the time, but because of his lack of vision and because he seems to be at a loss of what to do. He seems to be stuck in a game where all he knows how to do is run missions, when the fact of the matter is that in EVE the whole universe is out there for the taking. All you have to do is be able to wrap your head around that concept. No one is forcing him to stay in Dodixie. No one is forcing him to keep running the same old missions with the same old NPC corporation.
The fact that he can't see out of his little box and into the bigger picture is not his problem alone, but it is a problem that belongs to countless numbers of players who insist on doing the same things over and over. They sit in the same few systems, keep running the same missions, and keep shooting the same rats that they have been shooting for years. If that is your idea of fun, great. Shoot 'em up. But when you try to convince others around you to step inside your little box, that's where I draw the line and where your preaching of warped morality falls short. I don't play by "your" rules.
So sayeth the heathen.